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Next: Just curious
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Since: Jan 30, 2004 Posts: 56
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: rec>boats (more info?)
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On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:43:47 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
>Looking for a little bit of direction here. I've been recently assigned to
>my department's Marine Unit. I've been a cop for 15 years. I lived in NJ at
>the shore around boats most of my life, but never owned one. I rarely even
>went out on boats except for fishing or waterskiing. I moved to Florida in
>late 2000, and I'm still working as a cop (just in a nicer place). As a
>result of some administrative changes in my department, I was assigned to
>the Marine Unit. I've completed the necessary training and such, but one
>thing is lacking: experience. I'll try to get to the point - I'm open for
>comments and opinions. I know what the law says, and I know what my job is,
>but I try to use more common sense than what the law may actually say in
>black & white. What do you (as boaters) feel the most important issues are
>for the Police to deal with on the water? Would you like to see more O.U.I.
>enforcement? More vessel stops for no wake zone infractions? More safety
>inspections? More after dark patrols of inlets, channels, and harbor areas?
>You tell me. I'm asking for your honest opinions here. As a rule I use more
>common sense than anything on the job. I treat people fairly, and as a
>result I rarely ever have to appear in court. I would like to do the same on
>the water. Here's your chance to make a difference, because I will take
>every opinion into consideration. Thanks for your help.
>
>
You don't sound like the type, but just for future reference:
I went striper fishing one early morning, in the pouring rain, by
myself, in my 14' jon-boat, on the Hudson River. I launched in the
dark, and although I had two approved throwable PDF's onboard, I left
my "wearable" PDF on the launch ramp.
A few hours later, a DEC center cabin comes roaring up, and hooks my
gunwale. My little anchor is holding both of us, against a rising
tide and current, and he damned near swamps me. I disobey his
instruction to leave my anchor set, and pull it before my jon goes
under.
I'm wet, cold, with no fish, and he writes me up for no "wearable"
PDF. Yup, it was my mistake, but he was bustin' my ass, and he was an
idiot. In a 14' jon, the law does not require me to wear the
"wearable", just "have one on board", so what's the difference between
"wearable" and "throwable"? If he hadn't hooked my boat, I wouldn't
have needed the friggin' "wearable". I was the only boat on the river
that morning for miles, so I guess he had to find "something". After
writing me up, he ordered me off the river. Barney Fife.
I paid the fine, and thanked the judge for making it a very small one.
I think the judge was a fisherman.  )
You sound like a reasonable guy. People will appreciate that, so do
what you gotta' do. Thanks for listening.
Regards,
noah
To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah.
....as you were.  ) >> Stay informed about: Police Marine Units |
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Since: Jan 30, 2004 Posts: 56
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 13 Dec 2003 21:30:17 -0600, noah
wrote:
....uhm <sheepishly>, "PFD".
If I had known that Typing Class was more important than making-out
with Donna under the bleachers, I still woulda' been under the
bleachers.  )
Regards,
noah
To email me, remove the "OT-" from OT-wrecked.boats.noah.
....as you were.  ) >> Stay informed about: Police Marine Units |
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Snafu" wrote in message
> You can go by the book enforcing any laws at your disposal related to the
> operation of jet skis...
>
I agree on that subject - not to worry. Thanks.
--
<-= swatcop =->
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Greg" wrote in message
> From my experience, where the cops are NOT is patrolling almost anywhere
after
> dark. I bet more constituants care about after dark piracy along the water
> front than all the traffic tickets you can write.
> Getting rocked by a wake or hearing a loud boat is a minor irritation
compared
> to waking up and finding your engine gone.
> Other than that I imagine a boat cop is juat like being in the roller. You
> spend most of your shift clearing radio calls.
>
Ah-ha! Someone who agrees with me! I usually work the road after dark, and
my biggest pet-peeve is business checks and residential checks. I take it
personally if my sector has a burglary when I'm working because I'm very
thorough. The crime rate in my sector dropped 10% last year, which I'm very
proud of and attribute to high visibility patrol after dark. I plan on doing
the same thing with the Marine Unit by patrolling the channels and such.
Thanks.
--
<-= swatcop =->
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"John Gaquin" wrote in message
> I'll echo Harry's points above -- DUI, noise, and careless & reckless. If
> your jurisdiction couples careless with reckless, you can probably squeeze
> even more of the yahoos than with reckless alone. Depending on what part
of
> FL, your department probably has some pretty well thought out patrol and
> enforcement objectives, but those three would probably yield the greatest
> aggregate benefit to the boating community and the public at large.
>
> Thanks for asking, and thanks for doing your job.
>
> JG
>
Actually, there are no current enforcement objectives (thus the change in
administration). I've spoken with some of the surrounding agency's marine
officers and have gotten some pretty good ideas, but I want to know what the
PUBLIC wants done. Thank you for your input.
--
<-= swatcop =->
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message
> swatcop wrote:
>
> > Looking for a little bit of direction here. I've been recently assigned
to
> > my department's Marine Unit. I've been a cop for 15 years. I lived in NJ
at
> > the shore around boats most of my life, but never owned one. I rarely
even
> > went out on boats except for fishing or waterskiing. I moved to Florida
in
> > late 2000, and I'm still working as a cop (just in a nicer place). As a
> > result of some administrative changes in my department, I was assigned
to
> > the Marine Unit. I've completed the necessary training and such, but one
> > thing is lacking: experience. I'll try to get to the point - I'm open
for
> > comments and opinions. I know what the law says, and I know what my job
is,
> > but I try to use more common sense than what the law may actually say in
> > black & white. What do you (as boaters) feel the most important issues
are
> > for the Police to deal with on the water? Would you like to see more
O.U.I.
> > enforcement? More vessel stops for no wake zone infractions? More safety
> > inspections? More after dark patrols of inlets, channels, and harbor
areas?
> > You tell me. I'm asking for your honest opinions here. As a rule I use
more
> > common sense than anything on the job. I treat people fairly, and as a
> > result I rarely ever have to appear in court. I would like to do the
same on
> > the water. Here's your chance to make a difference, because I will take
> > every opinion into consideration. Thanks for your help.
>
> More DUI enforcement, more anti-noise enforcement, more "reckless
> boater" enforcement. Most folks I know who enjoy the water don't want to
> be annoyed or put at risk by idiots who do not behave decently.
>
> Good luck and be very careful. Most of the boaters you encounter will
> treat you decently and with respect, but a couple years ago out in the
> Chesapeake Bay, some unknowns assaulted a woman DNR watercop and it was
> damned serious. I seemed to recall the assailants were druggies, and
> they either beat or shot the officer.
>
> I'm not sure, but I think I knew the watercop in question. She had
> frequently checked out boats in our area for proper registration and
> fishing licenses, and was very pleasant about it, so much so that one of
> my fishing buddies tried to ask her out on a date (she was very pretty).
> I've not seen the woman since I heard about the incident. This was, oh,
> probably three years ago.
>
Thank you for your input, I'll take all of your points into consideration.
As a rule, I'm a very "officer safety" oriented cop as I'm on the S.W.A.T.
team and other similar functions already, but I certainly appreciate the
concern. Thank you.
--
<-= swatcop =->
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Since: Oct 31, 2003 Posts: 85
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Clams Canino wrote:
> This might parrot what others said, but in my opinon the more you can hound
> wreckless jet-ski's the better. hehe And then of course wreckless boaters
> in general.
I think the "wreckless" ones should be left alone and go after those
with many wrecks to their credit.
Rick >> Stay informed about: Police Marine Units |
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
> > Here's your chance to make a difference, because I will take
> > every opinion into consideration. Thanks for your help.
>
> Here in Rochester NY, there's a busy area where the sherrifs behave like
> giant mosquitoes, pestering anyone who looks wrong. I think it's a great
> idea, even though they've bugged me frequently to check my fishing
license.
> I have to imagine they nail people for more serious stuff. So, I'd say "Be
> the biggest pain in the ass you can".
>
> My pet peeve involves something that happens constantly when I'm fishing.
> The bay here is about a mile wide, and from side to side, it's deep enough
> for any boat. There's one spot where small fishing boats have been
> congregating for years because that's where the perch hang out. The spot's
> about an acre in size. Without fail, there's at least one moron per hour
who
> feels the need to crank past the fishermen at top speed, throwing 3-5 ft
> wakes.
>
> I don't know the official legal name of the law covering wakes, but when
my
> son's in the boat, I call it "attempted murder". One of these days,
> someone's gonna get a bullet in their fuel tank.
>
> Do something about that, wherever you work.
>
I'm not sure of the actual name of the statute (as I said I'm new at this
aspect of policing), but I know it exists. Part of my training was with the
Coast Guard, and I remember the instructor really driving his point home
about boaters being responsible for their wake. One of his examples was a
woman drinking coffee on her husband's boat. Some schmuck flew past them and
she spilled her coffee on her lap resulting in burns. The operator of the
other boat was heavily fined and also came under civil suit. I will
definitely keep an eye on the wakes of vessels. Thank you for your input.
--
<-= swatcop =->
"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed." >> Stay informed about: Police Marine Units |
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:43:47 GMT, "swatcop"
>
> >Looking for a little bit of direction here. I've been recently assigned
to
> >my department's Marine Unit. I've been a cop for 15 years. I lived in NJ
at
> >the shore around boats most of my life, but never owned one. I rarely
even
> >went out on boats except for fishing or waterskiing. I moved to Florida
in
> >late 2000, and I'm still working as a cop (just in a nicer place). As a
> >result of some administrative changes in my department, I was assigned to
> >the Marine Unit. I've completed the necessary training and such, but one
> >thing is lacking: experience. I'll try to get to the point - I'm open for
> >comments and opinions. I know what the law says, and I know what my job
is,
> >but I try to use more common sense than what the law may actually say in
> >black & white. What do you (as boaters) feel the most important issues
are
> >for the Police to deal with on the water? Would you like to see more
O.U.I.
> >enforcement? More vessel stops for no wake zone infractions? More safety
> >inspections? More after dark patrols of inlets, channels, and harbor
areas?
> >You tell me. I'm asking for your honest opinions here. As a rule I use
more
> >common sense than anything on the job. I treat people fairly, and as a
> >result I rarely ever have to appear in court. I would like to do the same
on
> >the water. Here's your chance to make a difference, because I will take
> >every opinion into consideration. Thanks for your help.
> >
> >
>
> Enforcement Needed:
> Inconsiderate and dangerous operation.... wakes, skiing in areas that
> just aren't safe, and the like. Drug interdiction. Violation of
> "green" laws.
>
> Enforcement Not Needed:
> Don't stop boaters unless you explain the WHY. In some areas,
> enforcement amounts to harassment. Stopping nearly everybody on the
> water isn't the best use of police resources (which are usually thin
> enough) and doesn't go a long way toward community opinion,
> especially, if a stop is just "a stop."
>
> Remember:
> A citation is not always the best answer. Hopefully you are looking
> for a favorable change in public behavior and are not acting
> principally as a profit center for the municipality.
>
> In short? Don't proudly and visibly stomp on the ants while letting
> the elephants run wild.
>
> --
>
>
>
> Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.
>
<font color=purple> > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/</font" target="_blank">http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/</font</a>>
Homepage
> <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp" target="_blank">http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp</a> Where
Southport,NC is located.
> <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm" target="_blank">http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm</a> Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
> <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats" target="_blank">http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats</a> Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
>
Duly noted. Just F.Y.I., I plan on using the same discretion that use with
road patrol. I figured out my traffic stop vs. citations ratio on another
newsgroup about a month ago. It seems that I only write citations to 28% of
the people that I stop. I plan on doing the same on the water, and I agree
that citations are most definitely not always the answer. I am indeed
looking for a favorable public opinion, which is the main reason that I
posted this message. I want to know what the PUBLIC wants. I already know
what the administration wants, but the administration isn't going to be out
on the water - I am.
As far as your ants vs. elephants theory, well, there's no challenge in
hunting ants and I like a challenge.
--
<-= swatcop =->
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Clams Canino" wrote in message
> Hi!
>
> This might parrot what others said, but in my opinon the more you can
hound
> wreckless jet-ski's the better. hehe And then of course wreckless
boaters
> in general.
>
> OUI is important too, but use your head. A couple guys out in a rowboat
with
> a 5hp Jonnyrude, fishing, with a 12 pack in the cooler ain't the real big
> problem, it's the speedboats with intoxicated operators that think they're
> Mario Andretti. LOL.
>
> Equipment checks are a good way to "bust balls" of someone you stopped for
> operation. But to stop people *just* to do equipment checks is annoying as
> all hell. There's enough strange operatoin out there to keep you busy.
>
> And lastly, don't "become" the problem. There are a lot of narrower places
> that just by inserting your boat in the middle - you *create* a no wake
> area - this really pisses off people pulling skiiers and tubes etc. They
> have have to drop of plane or get ticketed by Marine Patroll *because* of
> the damn Marine Patroll boat. So...in narrow areas stay near the edges
> please.
>
> And as a personal favor. <grin> Older couples often don't have an extra
> person to "spot" for the skiier.Yes, I know the law (in most states)
> requires a spotter, but it's often just me and my wife. So I put a
rearview
> mirror on the boat and call the German shepard my spotter. A warning will
do
> just fine - as we're at least *trying* to get it right with the mirror.
> Sometimes you just can't find a spotter without kidnapping someone - a
worse
> crime. Don't make me have to get a blow up doll.<grin>
>
>
> -W
>
I'll be looking for the ski-boat with the blow up doll in the back - you got
me to laugh on that one!
Anyway, I agree with your points on jetskis and reckless operation, I plan
to hit them pretty hard. Thanks for the tip on the narrow areas, although I
would have thought that to be common sense. Maybe it's different in your
area. And as a question on the safety checks, other than the marinas in my
town, most people use a public boat ramp area. Would you be offended if the
cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in line
to launch at a boat ramp? It seems to me like it would save time that way.
Thank you for your input.
--
<-= swatcop =->
"If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed." >> Stay informed about: Police Marine Units |
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Capt. Matt" wrote in message
> First off, thanks for asking! And welcome to Florida waters!! What kind of
> problems really depends on were you are, East coast is VERY different from
> West as far as perceived problems. OUI is always a concern for me as a
tour
> operator as well as inexperienced operators. I don't want to jump on the
PWC
> bashing bandwagon, but lots of these folks have no idea what safe
operation
> is, not all of them mind you. I have to tell you, a night patrol on
occasion
> will do a lot to ease many minds. As far as wake violations, I'm all for
> enforcement but some E.O.s from many fields have been over zealous and
would
> likely written a citation for boats at anchor in a strong spring tide if
> given the chance.
>
> Welcome! I'm just glad you are here!Conscientious law enforcement on the
> water is a good thing for all concerned even those that may be
> inconvenienced.
>
> Capt. Matt
>
Thank you for your input. Seems the jetskis are a common topic, and will be
dealt with more severely. As for the waterway, I'll be on the west coast in
the Gulf of Mexico. Thank you for the welcome and for the information, I
plan on making a POSITIVE change out there and not just becoming another
pain in the ass.
--
<-= swatcop =->
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Since: Jan 29, 2004 Posts: 1253
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: Police Marine Units [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ed" wrote in message
> Most also have no clue as to signalling rules for passing. I have hit
> the horn before expecting a response and they just look at me funny...
I agree. Around here (upstate NY), it seems that 75% of boaters don't know
the rules for passing. Meanwhile, I learned that when I took power squadron
courses at age 13. Perhaps those courses should be required, and validated
by a tattoo on the student's arm, to avoid swapping credentials.
Around here, we have a name for the yahoos: floating Camaros. If you got
into a shouting match with 50 of them and guessed their names and called
them Vito, you'd be right 45 times. It's a real problem. They're not like
the Italians I grew up with around NYC. They're caricatures. >> Stay informed about: Police Marine Units |
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Since: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 45
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:00 am
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Since: Jan 16, 2004 Posts: 39
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:07 am
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"Ed" wrote in message
> I would make one additional suggestion....
>
> Know the maritime law for the area you are in......
>
> I have been boating in IL for 20 years and now in FL for 20 years and I
> come across MANY officers who do not know the USCG rules of the road or
> common marine etiquite. The biggest error I have seen is the difference
> in NO WAKE IDLE SPEED and SLOW SPEED MINIMUM WAKE. I have a 48 ft
> sport fish and during manatee season, the ICWW is SLOW SPEED MINIMUM
> WAKE. A 48' Boat can go almost 2x the speed of a smaller boat and meet
> the legal definition of SLOW SPEED. The way it was expained to me by
> USCG officals was that a vessel can go as fast as they want, as long as
> the boat does not "begin to go on a plane" Which means the bow does not
> begin to rise.
>
> Most also have no clue as to signalling rules for passing. I have hit
> the horn before expecting a response and they just look at me funny...
>
> Have fun and stay safe.
>
I agree that most people don't know anything about the USCG rules, which is
exactly why I attended the USCG "Basic Skills and Seamanship" course. It
covers all of the points that you made, and I certainly know a lot more
about boating than I did before taking the course. Thank you for your input.
--
<-= swatcop =->
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Since: Jan 29, 2004 Posts: 1253
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:08 am
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"swatcop" wrote in message
> Would you be offended if the
> cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in line
> to launch at a boat ramp? It seems to me like it would save time that way.
>
That's a good idea. Include proper anchors in the list of necessary toys.
I've had the CG look over my yacht and check everything EXCEPT the anchor. I
can't tell you how many times I've had to hoist MY anchor to get out of the
way of some putz with an undersized anchor whose boat starts drifting and
threatening other anchored boats because the guy's motor won't start fast
enough.
Fishing is my church. Nobody disturbs my worship with my whining about it.
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