Police Marine Units

"Doug Kanter" wrote
  > >
  > > ... the requirement to have an anchor
  > > aboard is not Federal. Many states have placed their own requirement
for
  > >an anchor, and generally the CG will include the anchor as required in
those
  > > states.
 >
 >
 > Well, then people without anchors should be tried on the spot

Oh, I agree with you in principle (we might negotiate the nightcrawler
thing). I've been teaching in the CG Aux for several years, and we always
have to take time to clearly explain this irony. My personal opinion is
that only a fool would be afloat without an anchor, even on a pole raft.
But that is the law, odd as it seems.
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"noah" wrote in message

 > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:47:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

 > wrote:
 >


  > >
   > >> I paid the fine, and thanked the judge for making it a very small one.
   > >> I think the judge was a fisherman. )
   > >>
  > >
  > >Thank heaven for judges who understand the difference between the essence
of
  > >the law and the letter of the law (unlike the sad troopers who are told
to
  > >sit on the thruway all day and look only for speeders - never mind the
  > >tailgaters, or 30 yr old dump trucks spewing opaque fumes).
  > >
  > >Last year, I went to court to explain to a judge that I was doing 79 mph
at
  > >a certain moment, not 80 as the trooper claimed. The dangerous psychopath
  > >ahead of me was in a wheelchair with neck brace and oxygen tank, after
being
  > >beaten mercilessly by 3 DEC officers for being a week gone on his fishing
  > >license. The judge asked him if he was ware of the odd renewal date here
in
  > >NY - end of Sept or something like that. He responded that he understood,
  > >but generally forgot, like almost everyone else who's also preoccupied
with
  > >raking leaves at that time of year. Then, the judge asked him how the
  > >fishing was that day. He told the judge he'd been set upon by bluefills,
and
  > >hadn't caught any steelhead. The judge explained that justice would not
be
  > >served by fining a fisherman who hadn't caught anything worthwhile.
  > >
 >
 > Problem, "Doug"?
 >
 > I didn't have the "wearable". I got a ticket. It was bullshit. I paid
it.
 > I guess if I had been fishing from a Camaro, it would have been OK.
 >
 > Pissed about something?
 > Regards,
 > noah

Well, when I read your message, I was pissed that I'd run out of grapefruit.
But, my comment on balanced judges seems to fit what you mentioned. You said
the fine was a small one, right? I responded by describing a similar judge.
Did my typo (bluefills instead of bluegills) cause some confusion?
-Doug
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On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:35:44 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
 >I want to know what the
 >PUBLIC wants done. Thank you for your input.

==========================================

I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my
hot buttons:

Really tough noise enforcement. There is no excuse whatsoever for
operating a boat that can be heard more than a mile away. Ideally
this should start with the manufacurers and dealers but tough "on the
water" enforcement would have the same effect over time. No mufflers,
no boating.

Mindless operation in general, particularly personal water craft (jet
skis) that circle in the same general area. This is a constant
annoyance both to anchored boats, and also to home owners who can't
escape.

Mindless enforcement by marine police with a "by the book" radar trap
mentality. Speed zones are out of control in many areas because of
the mindless and irresponsible actions of a few. If a boat is being
operated in a safe manner, leaving a minimal wake, is not bothering
anyone, leave them alone - even if they are running on plane in a
speed zone. Many small boats can run on plane without endangering or
bothering anyone.

Last but not least, be unobtrusive. People are on the water to have a
good time and do not like a police state atmosphere. It's a tough
balance to strike but well worth the effort.
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On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:42:59 +0000, Wayne.B wrote:

 > I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my hot
 > buttons:
 >
 > Really tough noise enforcement.

As I get older, I'm surprised at how intrusive I find loud noises. Things
that never used to bother me are now an annoyance, loud boats,
un-muffled Harleys, or, my personal favorite, the Sunday mower
marathon.
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On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:55:36 GMT, "swatcop"
wrote:
 >Would you be offended if the
 >cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in line
 >to launch at a boat ramp?

======================================

Absolutely offended. This is intrusive enforcement with no probable
cause. Leave people alone unless they are doing something stupid or
annoying.
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In Canada, an anchor _is_ a federal requirement. See
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/obs-bsn." target="_blank">http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/obs-bsn.</a> They do not, however, state anything about
the anchor except that it exist!

====

Charles T. Low
ctlow5 RemoveThis @boatUNdocking.com - remove "UN"
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.boatdocking.com" target="_blank">www.boatdocking.com</a>
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26" target="_blank">www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26</a> - my boat

====

"John Gaquin" wrote in message

 >

   > > >
  > >
  > > That's a good idea. Include proper anchors in the list of necessary
toys.
  > > I've had the CG look over my yacht and check everything EXCEPT the
anchor.
 >
 > I don't know where you are, Doug, but the requirement to have an anchor
 > aboard is not Federal. Many states have placed their own requirement for
an
 > anchor, and generally the CG will include the anchor as required in those
 > states.
 >
 > JG
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"Wayne.B" wrote in message


 >
 > I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my
 > hot buttons:
 >
 > Really tough noise enforcement.

You'll be running for town supervisor here next year, right?
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1/ We have a great program in Canada, which I think exists in many places in
the U.S. too, of "courtesy" inspections. However, I don't know if the police
offers them - I get mine from the CGAux. (In fact, I think the police have a
formal "zero tolerance" policy.) There are no penalties - it's just
advisory. The "advice," if you found to be in violation, is that if a police
officer ever stops you, you will be fined.

So, responsible boaters who have done their best and think their boat is
adequately equipped can have it checked by an authoritative source without
fear of recrimination, and without occupying police resources which perhaps
could be better utilized elsewhere.

The check on my boat takes a good twenty minutes, so I'm not sure how you
could do that in a boat-ramp line-up. (Are they that slow?)

2/ In our society, we all (almost) know how to drive a car, so a police
officer can take special training in highway enforcement, and even advanced
driving techniques, and be a good highway patrolman. But we don't all have
much experience operating boats, and a course or two is very good but
nowhere near the experience and expertise that some recreational boaters
have, so that's a problem I've heard about at times: boaters being ordered
to hold station in a cross-wind with an opposing current in a narrow
shipping channel, for example, which just can't work. A Rule of the Sea is
that the captain (even the owner or operator of a small recreational boat)
is responsible for the safe operation of that vessel, and can refuse orders
from other authorities if he/she believes it necessary. I don't know if
that's written or traditional. And I suspect that you would want to be able
to convince a judge, later, that you weren't just trying to evade the
officer, but really could not in all conscience behave as demanded. That can
often be resolved by a patient police officer asking for clarification -
firmly but politely - or asking in what manner could the boater maneuver
his/her boat in order for the further inspection to proceed, etc.

This should start along the lines of, "I'm sorry officer, but am unable to
comply due to the narrow channel with a cross-wind and current. Could you
suggest an alternate course of action?" Or, "May I suggest an alternate
course of action?" But people are often very threatened and angry when
approached, so handling it professionally I think sometimes requires every
ounce of self-control the officer can muster.

I, for example, have had good, long looks through the Nav Rules on many
occasions, and still learn something new each time I inspect them, and I
sincerely doubt that most weekend marine policemen understand them as well
as I do. That need not be a problem if I remain respectful, and if the
policemen doesn't have the insecurity that some exhibit about having about
limitations of their knowledge, as long as both parties are simply willing
to have a conversation and then to gauge what they think about the accuracy
of the new information and reformulate their plans based on that. I am also
very familiar with my boat, and understand its capabilities and limitation,
and don't expect every police officer to know all about the different
handling characteristics of small planing sailboats, large keel boats,
planing power boats with single or double I/O's or IB's, displacement and
semi-displacement trawlers... there's a lot to know, and it takes years of
boat operation to come to grips with some of it.

Some law enforcers go into bureaucratic mode, and I've heard of, "You're
trying my patience, plead guilty or spend the night in jail," over very
minor stuff that just required a few minutes of calm explanation. From what
I've seen so far, you're not one of those (and I hope they're the minority).

Which is good!

====

Charles T. Low
ctlow5.RemoveThis@boatUNdocking.com - remove "UN"
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====

"swatcop" wrote in message

 > ... And as a question on the safety checks, other than the marinas in my
 > town, most people use a public boat ramp area. Would you be offended if
the
 > cops did a safety inspection on your vessel while you were waiting in line
 > to launch at a boat ramp? It seems to me like it would save time that way.
 > Thank you for your input.
 > <-= swatcop =->
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"Charles T. Low" wrote in message

 > In Canada, an anchor _is_ a federal requirement. See

Sorry, Charles. Once again, I forgot to specify.

JG
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swatcop,
Just can't beat common sense. To Protect and to Serve is what's it's all
about. You sound like a good cop to me.
Paul

"swatcop" wrote in message

 > Looking for a little bit of direction here. I've been recently assigned to
 > my department's Marine Unit. I've been a cop for 15 years. I lived in NJ
at
 > the shore around boats most of my life, but never owned one. I rarely even
 > went out on boats except for fishing or waterskiing. I moved to Florida in
 > late 2000, and I'm still working as a cop (just in a nicer place). As a
 > result of some administrative changes in my department, I was assigned to
 > the Marine Unit. I've completed the necessary training and such, but one
 > thing is lacking: experience. I'll try to get to the point - I'm open for
 > comments and opinions. I know what the law says, and I know what my job
is,
 > but I try to use more common sense than what the law may actually say in
 > black & white. What do you (as boaters) feel the most important issues are
 > for the Police to deal with on the water? Would you like to see more
O.U.I.
 > enforcement? More vessel stops for no wake zone infractions? More safety
 > inspections? More after dark patrols of inlets, channels, and harbor
areas?
 > You tell me. I'm asking for your honest opinions here. As a rule I use
more
 > common sense than anything on the job. I treat people fairly, and as a
 > result I rarely ever have to appear in court. I would like to do the same
on
 > the water. Here's your chance to make a difference, because I will take
 > every opinion into consideration. Thanks for your help.
 >
 >
 >
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"thunder" wrote in message

 > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:42:59 +0000, Wayne.B wrote:
 >
  > > I can't claim to speak for the entire public but here are some of my hot
  > > buttons:
  > >
  > > Really tough noise enforcement.
 >
 > As I get older, I'm surprised at how intrusive I find loud noises. Things
 > that never used to bother me are now an annoyance, loud boats,
 > un-muffled Harleys, or, my personal favorite, the Sunday mower
 > marathon.

I can sort of put up with the mowers, but it's the leaf blowers that get to
me. In my previous residence, my neighbor had a driveway one car wide and 30
feet long. He'd get out the blower and spend an hour chasing down 17 blades
of grass. Meanwhile, when my son was 6 yrs old, he could broom off our
driveway in under 5 minutes, and it was 2 cars wide, 50 feet long.

Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.
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On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:13 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:

 > I can sort of put up with the mowers,

With the mowers, it isn't the sound I find objectionable, it's the
marathon. Around here, Sunday is the day for mowing. The problem is that
they don't all mow at the same time, it's an all day affair.

 > but it's the leaf blowers that get
 > to me. In my previous residence, my neighbor had a driveway one car wide
 > and 30 feet long. He'd get out the blower and spend an hour chasing down
 > 17 blades of grass. Meanwhile, when my son was 6 yrs old, he could broom
 > off our driveway in under 5 minutes, and it was 2 cars wide, 50 feet long.
 >
 > Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.

I'm sure you have seen this guy. A can of beer in one hand, a hose in the
other, hosing of that driveway. At least it's quieter.
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thunder wrote:

 > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:13 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:
 >
  >> I can sort of put up with the mowers,
 >
 > With the mowers, it isn't the sound I find objectionable, it's the
 > marathon. Around here, Sunday is the day for mowing. The problem is that
 > they don't all mow at the same time, it's an all day affair.
 >
  >> but it's the leaf blowers that get
  >> to me. In my previous residence, my neighbor had a driveway one car wide
  >> and 30 feet long. He'd get out the blower and spend an hour chasing down
  >> 17 blades of grass. Meanwhile, when my son was 6 yrs old, he could broom
  >> off our driveway in under 5 minutes, and it was 2 cars wide, 50 feet long.
  >>
  >> Maybe this is why we're a nation of fatsos. Too lazy to lift a broom.
 >
 > I'm sure you have seen this guy. A can of beer in one hand, a hose in the
 > other, hosing of that driveway. At least it's quieter.


Down near the front of our little country road, we have a farmer who has
what I can only describe as a muffler-less diesel tractor (or maybe just
a defective muffler) with which he tows a very substantial mower. The
noise is breathtaking.

Guy grows two acres of tobacco in the spring and summer, then hangs it
in a traditional dingy red barn. I had thought the raising of tobacco
had been restricted in Maryland, but there must be loopholes. In any
event, the plant itself looks quite nice when it is fully grown, and has
some interesting flowers. After the tobacco is cleared, he grows
turnips, kale and several other very traditional southern leaf crops for
his table.

He's got a pretty little farm, and the hope is it stays in his family as
a farm, and isn't turned over to a "developer."



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